Using “Intermediaries” to Streamline Operations and Support Expanded SNAP E&T Programs

Using “Intermediaries” to Streamline Operations and Support Expanded SNAP E&T Programs

September 17, 2019 0 By Ewald Bahringer


my name is Nick Codd and I’m with Seattle Jobs Initiative and I think we’re ready to get started for today. I want to welcome everybody. Thank you for participating today. We appreciate your interest in this topic. So just a couple things. So I’m with Seattle Jobs Initiative and Seattle Jobs Initiative is located in Seattle in the state of Washington. We provide technical assistance focused on SNAP employment and training and we work closely with the Food and Nutrition Service to deliver the SNAP to Skills project which is a project that’s been going for about four years now. It includes technical assistance to States, we’ve done a Learning Academy, some state institutes, and we do webinars and some additional publications and policy briefs. So one of the goals of the SNAP to Skills project is to assist States build out and expand their high-quality employment and training programs and really to increase opportunities and participation for SNAP recipients. So what we see as states look to expand their services they also need to expand their infrastructure and their capacity to support a larger program and this can actually present a bit of a challenge to different states and can impact growth. So one of the options that state SNAP agencies have is to use intermediaries to assist with this expanded role in management of programs and that’s what we’re going to talk about today. So we have a list of presenters for today we’re going to hear from Rachel Gragg who is with the FNS Office of Employment and Training. You’re going to hear a little bit more from me, and we’re also going to hear from Jenny Taylor of Goodwill of North Georgia, Kate Kinder from Portland Community College, and Stacey and Patrick from WorkSystems in Portland Oregon. So we have two different intermediaries from the state of Oregon in the city of Portland so I just wanted to be clear on that. So we’re very excited about what we have to offer today and we look forward to an interesting webinar before we get into the actual presentation I wanted to touch base on a couple housekeeping items. So we want to hear your questions, we want to have an opportunity for you guys to to listen and ask questions and so we ask that you submit any questions you have in the chat box and you can do that at any point throughout the webinar. So whenever these questions occur to you go ahead and submit them and we’ll go through the questions after all the presenters have finished presenting and we think that will be at about the top of the hour. So we’ll have a designated Q&A session at the end. The other thing that I wanted to share is that this webinar is being recorded and you should receive an email once this webinar has been recorded and posted on the SNAP to Skills website. So I know a number of of times we do webinars people have questions about whether they can see the PowerPoint slides, any materials, or hear the webinar again and the answer to that is yes you can and and you should get an email indicating when all that’s available. And if you don’t feel free to check the SNAP to Skills website. I wouldn’t anticipate all of that being ready for at least a week. It takes us a bit to get that on the website so those are the two basic housekeeping items for today. so we want to sort of keep this simple and moving forward so again let’s take a quick look at our agenda for today. We’re going to hear from Rachel Gragg and sort of the national perspective. I’m going to just spend a couple seconds talking about the benefits and points of caution and provide a little bit context around the topic area and then we’re going to get into our intermediary models and I’m really excited because we’ve got a community based organization, we have a community college, and we have workforce development boards. We have three really sort of distinct models which I think will give you plenty to listen to and think about and hopefully give you a good reason to think and consider whether or not an intermediary might be beneficial in your community. So with that I’m going to go ahead and introduce Rachel Gragg from the Food and Nutrition Service and Rachel can get us started and say a few words. Thanks Nick. So I am I’m going to try and be brief so we can spend the bulk of the time with the actual content experts who will give us practical advice on how to make our SNAP E&T programs even stronger than they already are. I just want to emphasize from FNS’ perspective you know the Agency and the Department continue to have an incredibly strong commitment to helping States build out their SNAP E&T programs, both the quality of those programs and the capacity that the states have to administer those programs. As Nick mentioned, for four years we’ve done SNAP to skills. A lot of States have come a long way from about five years ago and it’s really been a pleasure to see the commitment that States have made to building out this program. But it can be challenging and I do think that this conversation that we’re having today about the role of intermediaries can be a helpful strategy for States, particularly when the State agency itself is struggling to figure out how to do all the things that need to be done–not just around snap E&T but around the larger snap program as well. So I do think that this conversation is a really practical strategy to think about whether or not it’s something that might work in your State. If you have questions, if there are things that you need help with, of course please don’t hesitate to reach out to your Regional Office or reach out to the National Office. We want to make sure that you are getting the resources and the help that you need to expand and strengthen your E&T program. I will make one note about this kind of intermediary strategy. As always, FNS’ relationship is with the State SNAP agency–it is always with the State SNAP agency–so that’s where that line of authority and the line of responsibility for SNAP E&T remains, even if a state chooses to adopt an intermediary strategy, or more than one intermediary strategy, and what you can do. At the end of the day when FNS comes to talk to the state about their E&T program or when we come to do an EM, or when there are audits, whatever work FNS does around E&T, it’s always going to be through the state snap agency. So adopting an intermediary strategy, the State still holds that responsibility to make sure that the program is operating in compliance with all of our regulations and with the law and that the program, you know, is what the State wants it to be. So this can be a helpful strategy but it does not lift the responsibility for administering the program from the State SNAP agency. Finally, I just want to thank everybody. There’s a lot of people on this call, there’s more than 200 people on this call, which is extraordinary. I think five years ago I could not have found two hundred people in the entire country who even knew what snap E&T was, so the fact that you all are taking the time to be on this webinar and are interested in this topic, I really appreciate the time that you’re you’re giving us today. I want to thank the speakers as well, who not only are taking the time today to talk about the work that they’re doing, but are spending a tremendous amount of time actually doing that work and doing really good work. Oregon and Georgia have both grown their program by leaps and bounds and really changed the nature of their program in positive ways. So I just I just want to emphasize that we really, FNS really appreciates the work that everybody is doing. So Nick I think that’s that’s all I have. That’s perfect, thanks Rachel. Yes, good, all right so what I want to do is just provide a little bit of context before we move forward and as I mentioned you know we’re going to hear from three I think really strong intermediary models but in our work yes I think with the work that FNS does across the country we see additional types of intermediaries and so these different partnerships these different arrangements can look quite different. They have different scope, different areas of focus, so there’s some different ways to to look at all of this but I think I think what what we see most in common is that intermediaries in the context of SNAP Employment and Training, I think, sort of fall into two basic areas. So for the most part oftentimes intermediaries have this role of helping to carry out some of the required and essential administrative tasks that go along with operating a SNAP Employment and Training program. So they can provide support to the to the state programs, they can centralize operations and make things work a little bit more efficient, sufficiently well. That’s one of the things that we see. The other thing that we see is that intermediaries oftentimes will have the capacity to support SNAP E&T programs by leveraging established partnerships and leadership roles that they already have or a certain type of expertise within the workforce and employment and training arena and this is something that you’re going to hear about, I think, from all three of our presenters because they’re really able to sort of leverage if you will or build on to their role in the community to help to expand SNAP E&T programs and use that intermediary role to do that. So some of the benefits of working with an innovator being an intermediary is, as I stated, intermediaries can support the State SNAP agency in its expansion by assuming some of these administrative and operational tasks and oftentimes intermediaries have a level of flexibility to do this that might not be available within the State SNAP agency or state government. They’re just a bit more nimble and then in some cases what we’ve seen, which sort of falls in line with the flexibility and the nimbleness, is that intermediaries can take on the role of expediting the process of securing new partners or 50/50 partners and and they can oftentimes do that in a way that’s less cumbersome or time-consuming than than if it’s the state itself. (next slide please) So another another sort of list of benefits is that when intermediaries are supporting SNAP E&T within the workforce arena as I said before they can they can really leverage and build on their on their role and their partnerships and their expertise and so one of the things that they can do is they can provide access to key partnerships within the arena that are important and build strong connections to priority populations in communities. So this is again something I think you’re going to hear about from our three presenters. And so sort of along the same lines, intermediaries can focus on more specific workforce areas or target populations.Sometimes we find that intermediaries have a stronger connection to priority population communities than the State SNAP agency hasn’t yet connected to but needs to connect to or they may have a specific area of expertise or position that the State SNAP agency needs and can access by working with an intermediary. So these are these are some of the additional benefits expertise. So along with these benefits we want to just point out that there are some points of caution and as Rachel mentioned the thing to keep in mind is that ultimately State SNAP programs are the responsibility of the State SNAP agency and that’s who FNS works with directly and ultimately the buck stops with the State SNAP agency. So in establishing these intermediary relationships it’s really important to have clear boundaries, clear roles, levels of authorities, the levels of responsibilities between the State SNAP agency and a particular intermediary. The other thing to think about is that intermediaries will need a strong knowledge of SNAP E&T and particularly third-party partnership models. They’ll have to be developing expertise on fiscal matters and policy matters and and within all of that understand when some of these issues may need to be pushed up to FNS or the State itself to get some answers and clarification. So again this gets back to the roles, the responsibilities, levels of authority, and where intermediaries fit in all of that. The other thing is is that intermediaries play an important role there. They’re really essential and in many cases we see them funded with 100% funds so if your State SNAP agency and you’re looking at an intermediary you know it may be that using some of your hundred percent funds or other funds to support their work will be part of your consideration and working with an intermediary. So those are some of the points of caution and I think Rachel hit on some of that as well. Again, I mean we want to highlight the benefits we want to show some really good examples but were like, you know, with any of this, you know, we have to remind people that, you know, there’s some things to be careful about and to think about. So with that I want to go ahead and turn things over to our first presenter Jenny Taylor from Goodwill of North Georgia and we’re going to have turn this over to Jenny and you might just see a little blip on your screen as we make this transition but don’t worry. well thank you Nick and everybody at sji we certainly appreciate all of the training and support that we’ve gotten as part of the Leadership Academy and and to all the folks at OET, Rachel and all of your peers there we certainly wouldn’t be where we are in Georgia without your support and leadership so thank you for that. First of all can you see my screen is it showing. Jimmy can you make it a bit bigger? yes you may actually be seeing my presenter screen versus the yeah okay let me switch that over okay so now can see it larger? yep. okay great. all right so very, very briefly just to give you some context about Goodwill you’re probably very familiar with Goodwill thrift stores even if you don’t know that we’re a workforce development agency most people are familiar with that. But what that means is that we have a training ground as well as a large source of revenue to support private workforce development services which of course are one of the criteria for a snap 50-50 program. But you may not know that our retail footprint is larger than target. That one out of every 200 adults in the United States who went to work last year was helped by a Goodwill agency. There are more than 160 Goodwill agencies across the country and each one is a separate 501(c)(3) organization. But we’re very well respected internationally. It’s a good partnership to have because people identify our brand is doing good–it’s in our name–so it’s hard to not think that. But we are also a SNAP provider and a SNAP E&T provider. Some agencies also help with with SNAP, but I know we’re talking with E&T now and this is some of the marketing that we do to help people. But ultimately our mission is aligned with what you do. We want to put people to work in North Georgia, which we’re very successful at. That is the reason that we were approached to be a partner in the first place. So over 25,000 people last year in North Georgia alone and that’s been exponential growth which in part has been helped by our program with SNAP E&T. So one of the additions that I know that will begin we’re tracking now but we’ll begin probably in the future wanting to see what the outcomes of these programs are. We see 85% of the people who enroll in our programs become employed and become self-sufficient and we are very data-driven so we also track the number of people who are able to move into self-sufficiency and also public benefits. wW’re seeing a very positive return on that and as Nick said when you partner with some Goodwill you partner with an entire network and certainly when you partner with an experienced intermediary and large scale you get a lot of collaboration. So not just the agency that you’re working with you get an entire network of partnerships who are now going to be aware and begin to understand the benefits and how to leverage SNAP E&T to increase their programmatic delivery system. So in Georgia we were at the time that we started at about 200,000 folks. We’re at 600,000 now as a state I just learned in our work group meeting this morning. But the state really wanted to move from the old model of job search and workfare to a much more robust system that included real skills training, credentialing, partnerships to move people to more self-sufficiency. And so we were the first partner in the state in 2017 and I need to share that at the time that we started we we served 10 people and and we started really small. But it was exactly right for us to serve 10. Where we’re up to we’ve gone from dozens to hundreds to thousands. Now we served a little over 400 people last month throughout our program but we started small so that’s some advice to give to you as well. But the challenges in Georgia, which many of you probably have, they have less than two million dollars to fund the entire program for the State. They weren’t connected into that Network in the way that that many providers or other agencies have been historically, and really were not able to know who’s doing a good job or who would be an organization that’s worthy to start with and then expand the program out. So that was why they reached out to us. So I want to give a lot of credit to – Tatrina Young, who is our SNAP E&T coordinator for the state of Georgia. She had a vision to move from that old model, to have a statewide expansion in three years, and we have achieved that – having a program all throughout the state of Georgia and services available in urban, suburban, and rural counties. And the way that we accomplished that was first by beginning with our organization as the first provider. They were so pleased with what we were doing and wanted to be consistent across the State. And we work very well with our peer Goodwill agencies statewide that we brought the Georgia Goodwill Association on board and they all subcontract for us. So the state has a benefit of one invoice, one system, and they use hundred percent funds for us to be a technical assistance provider to them and also an intermediary and we’re able to reach some really rural areas that way as well as our virtual services which allow people to access through mobile devices to chat with staff live online through some of our virtual and digital solutions. So just to give you a sense nationally how we’ve grown, just Goodwills, we have now expanded to a little over 12 million dollars in contracts, a 33% increase in growing and this is a shot of what it looks like for Goodwill agencies partnering with their states for SNAP E&T. You notice a big cluster in the southeast and i have to say that the southeast region office with Nick Espinosa and Larry Young have been tremendous partners for us. We share a lot in the Southeast Region among our States as well and so that that ability for us to help assess the readiness of which Goodwill and which other providers in the States are ready has led to some growth in that area. So we have a lot of things in common. We’re aligned in our goals, most of the services that we’re already delivering are allowable activities and components that you’re looking for. We have different funding, not just Goodwill thrift stores, and the revenue there for funding streams we have often a lot of private corporate foundation and other types of State dollars that we can leverage that are not already matched to federal programs. Many of us have experience with federally funded programs or we have the support of Goodwill Industries International if it’s a smaller Goodwill agency and we have an extensive network we’re highly focused on results, on outcomes. So we transition from not just being a provider and intermediary for Goodwill but they were so pleased with how we went through that process that we now added the 360 of work supports which again was to Tatrina Young’s vision to help bring onboard all of the things that people need that may not be allowable on their own but when they’re combined with a vocational training program could potentially be reimbursable for people. So we’re bringing on other nonprofit organizations faith-based organizations providers to begin to expand the network of services and additional work supports for people under our umbrella and in people often either will come subcontract for us or they go directly with the state it doesn’t make a difference to us we really are just trying to help expand the program however we can and so this is directly from SGI you’ll see I added one step at the end after when you identify a partner educate them on the program assess their readiness to do it start a contract on boredom if monitor we continue to make sure that they do well and that they’re there keeping up to date with everything they need to know so when we’re assessing we’re looking for administrative capacity that they’re serving a large number of sampras epyon they have stable source of funding you know goodwill obviously has a source so many other organizations have different kinds of funding that they’re good at collecting data they have the right kind of programming and they can run the program because it is a bit of an administrative burden as most of you who are operating one know but it’s not any more difficult than a regular federal grant so what this state tells us they like is that we are able to increase their capacity as Nick said in the beginning we have a large number of people who are walking in the doors of our career centers and walking in the doors of these nonprofits who may not be walking into the doors of the state because we don’t issue any kinds of sanctions we’re friendly and so it increases the volume of people who are receiving services we’re able to translate and be an ambassador to employers who really don’t have a lot of patience for the regulations and paperwork so we we streamline all of that for them and we can also be more nimble in lots of ways that the state has a lot of higher Ian and levels of approval that they have to go through once the decision is made we connect very very quickly as a non-profit private organization and then we’re just so trusting place so why would we do this other than help just our altruism of helping the world there’s direct benefit and we get additional dollars for our programs and services it’s a huge draw for philanthropy if I go in and pitch a program and say hey you’re going to be able to extend your partnership with us and leverage your dollars for for 50 percent more if the conversation goes very well so we’ve had a great deal of increase because of that we have better connections to state systems and leadership to understand what state means and what they want where their priorities are what’s coming in the future and it allows us to leverage lots of resources across lots of services by being an intermediary we’re a better provider as well and then the benefit to the client is ultimately what we’re doing and we help first jobs of which you know folks who are unemployed or having a hard time becoming employed then we help them move into their next job and ultimately their career to help them with self-sufficiency so we follow everybody for a year after they are you off of their benefits just to make sure that they maintain and so this is another part of the campaign that we do and that is my presentation so thank you so much we’ll do questions at the end thanks Jenny that was great that was excellent lots of really good information and again I think it’s something that will give people that are you know calling in from the State snap agency our County snap agency plenty to think about as well as committee based organizations in particular organizations like yours that are large and have a have a big presence so thanks that was that was wonderful okay so next slide so next I would like to introduce Kate kinder and Kate comes to us from Portland Community College has a really strong and impressive intermediary model to to share with us so Kate I’m going to turn it over to you great thank you so much Nick and there we go all right so I am going to talk about Oregon’s Community College descansar sure as Nick said I work at Portland Community College I am the director of career pathways and skills training and I’ve had that great opportunity of overseeing the steps which is our snap 50-50 consortium amongst the community colleges some speak any a little bit of background about Portland Community College we are the largest post-secondary institution in the state we serve about 70,000 students a year we have four comprehensive campuses and ten centers and Oregon as a whole has 17 community colleges that are independently accredited we are not a community college systems that’s important to note so before I go into some of the logistics and advantages of our intermediary model I wanted to explain a little bit about how we all came together so one thing I think that’s helpful to understand is I’m speaking about snap 5050 in Oregon about two years ago renamed it’s that 50/50 program step so step stands for snap training Employment Program but if that language goes back and forth that is why so one of the things that I think is really important to consider when developing an intermediary or a consortium model is to in addition to the very clear goals and outcomes that snap E&T provides to create access to skills and careers that that lead to self-sufficiency is also having some really common elements amongst the providers that are coming together that align with your mission align with your vision and the priorities of your organization so for the community colleges the step project and snap E&T fit in really perfectly and and some of the work that we’re doing in our priorities to focus on skills and credential completion to focus on economic mobility and pathways out of poverty to focus on access equity inclusion to make sure we are reaching all members of our immunity some communities of color first-generation students single parents non-native english-speakers immigrants and then really a workforce development strategy so looking at partnership sector strategies and responding to local industry input so that was really what kind of undergirded our approach and some common elements that brought us together next slide please so in terms of how we build our consortium we do intentionally use a plural word instead of consortium because snap E&T is really unique we work together as a consortium of community colleges but in order for this work to be effective there really needs to be a second consortium or alliance that’s working locally so all of our community colleges are working very closely with their local partners with our local DHS with with Oregon Employment Department and with other providers in their area so in terms of developing our consortium I think these are the three pieces that really helped us have a strong model so one was really working closely with our Oregon Department of Human Services office who administer snap E&T they had a really clear vision for having local partnerships for having a skills based approach and really saw snap E&T as a key strategy to get families out of poverty and sawdust is an opportunity to meet the needs and to really partner and bring partners together the community colleges came at it and we have as I said we are not a state system but we have ten years of collaboration and through various projects and peer learning that were able to work together on a common project or grant and we also were fortunately attacked one grants that we work to all 17 community colleges work together on as a consortium and that was actually a recommendation that we look at snap E&T as a way to continuing some of our promising practices that were ending with the end of that grant and then technical assistance was huge so we got assistance through our state Department of Human Services office they’re wonderful and really supportive and building up our project and obviously they administer the Graham stone making sure everything we were developing complied with what needed to happen at the nest has been great both at the federal and Western Region and then we were fortunate we had a technical assistance grant through National Skills coalition so we’re able to work with Seattle Jobs Initiative and really design our systems and infrastructure in a way that worked with a compliance pieces but kept it very student-centered and really using a person-centered design so that that it was it worked for the individuals who are trying to serve next slide in terms of our intermediary model as I said we are Portland Community College is the umbrella contractor where their enemy Thierry so we did start very small we worked we’re in our third year and we worked for about a year year and a half before we actually started so one thing to note is we actually were able to develop this project without any 100% funds we did have a small small amount of funding through technical assistance but very very minimal so really it is possible to do this without an influx of funding Oregon and what does that have a lot of resources at the time and so we are really intentional about looking at what resources of community colleges had and being specifically allocating those to expand enhance or create new services for snap recipients but in doing so it just took us a little bit longer to get a really strong project in place but that doing the work upfront pays off and mentally because we’ve been able to expand a pretty rapidly Simpson so this is a map of all the community colleges in the state so the first year we had six colleges and then the second year we brought which is federal fiscal year 2017 when we started then we brought on three additional this year we brought on five and then next year we are bringing on three and so we have really really different sizes of colleges they serve very different communities some are very rural and isolated somewhere in Metro regions some have a blend of areas in our district so really designing something that works for all of all of the colleges next slide in terms of developing a common infrastructure and framework one of the things that we have found very valuable for the model is having a common framework so the Community College Career Pathways model that’s been around in Oregon for close to 15 years is really what we are fundamentally using to support snap recipients at the college’s so really looking at how can we support progression perhaps first while how can we support access to college and then how can we support the skills progression of individuals to make sure that they’re getting their GED or ESL courses that they needed that they are getting those stackable credentials that lead to a career and a degree that it responds to to labor market information and to jobs with with economic mobility and that we’re integrating holistic student supports and that’s been one of the biggest wins I think for the four enables being able to do this snap E&T is that it’s allowed the colleges to really enhance that coaching and wraparound support that’s so key for student success and so that’s been a huge benefit next slide in terms of the benefit of having all of us work together as a consortium has really been the collective impact and focus on the work so we in addition to the snap E&T outcomes that we track is we also look at skills games amongst our students that we’re serving we look at credential completion we look at careers we look at wage progression and so we’re able to really look at what’s working and what’s not and then as many of the causes are also just aggregating that by populations to see if there’s any opportunity gaps to ensure that we are serving students of color as well as as other students and just really looking at at what’s working the partnerships have been really key so working in those local regions with these with a local DHS office with the other providers for the Workforce Development Board with Oregon Employment Department has really been able to create strong program development link Lane County and Salang Community College is a really good example of where that’s working as well as Glamis and Klamath a community colleges work with the tribes has worked with goodwill with organ employment department to really leverage what they all do well and maximize resources to meet the needs of the community the other piece that I think’s really fantastic that doesn’t get emphasized as much always as really the the benefit of creating a community of practice so that when we come together quarterly in person as a meeting and then we also have monthly technical assistance calls and so that’s supposed to make sure we’re we’re complying with requirements of the grant but also really allows us to leverage expertise that collective assistance with onboarding of new colleges streamlines of information sharing Portland Community College is much larger than many other colleges so we’re not always the best model for colleges to visit but they can go in and visit more of a peer college to see how they are operating so that’s been hugely helpful the other piece is our state DHS office also has a monthly technical assistance call and so we’re able to share that information through all the providers next slide the benefit I think to those the colleges or the other organizations involved in their intermediary and to the state partners to DHS is that it really does streamline administration and increase its impact so we have a consistent we have consistent process to use across the state compliance protocols and data fiscal reporting mechanisms so we’re able to give the new providers a toolkit that has a grant guide that has things to follow when we partner very closely with the state DHS office so if there are policy changes or compliance changes that need to happen we can get that information out very quickly to the other provider it streamlines and simplifies work for all of us to be able to do that the other thing we’ve been able to do is work together to develop consortium wide materials such as our assessments our time and effort forms that are needed so that we can collectively have common things and then we can also really assess what’s working and what needs to be improved I think having a PCC as intermediary has allowed a 6-10 capacity and advocacy or expand capacity and impact much more quickly across the state especially for for colleges who may not have as much bandwidth to bring the in Milan it leverages resources and advocacy so one of the things we have been able to generate other funding we’ve been able to generate continued interest in funding some initiatives with the community colleges because of snap E&T and as Jenny mentioned first count for philanthropy and for foundations it’s been a really powerful rate of cell for them to see that they could not only invest in getting people out of poverty and into jobs they could also get some return on investment on that and then it also has raised awareness and connection to other statewide initiatives so pathways opportunity is something the Oregon is engaged in that’s really looking at increasing access to federal benefits to increase college completion and access for low-income students so really I think raised awareness of a more poverty informed approach in higher education which has been very valuable next slide in terms of considerations with intermediary models I think it’s essential that intermediary can market the program and clearly explain that concepts for various audiences and when I say market I really mean explain in a compelling manner so what I found is it is the match and 50/50 is is very unique and very different from how many physical controllers or grant accountants are used to operating and so it can take a while to really walk through the compliance protocols and the the approach of it to make sure people are on board it can also be a lot of work initially and so it’s important to make sure you can show that that there is a benefit down the road it is a considerable investment of time required up size to develop strong systems as I said we did not have funding to do that so figured a way to do it from within our existing work and so it took some time but I think doing that is in starting this model is really key for success and expansion later on it’s really key that an intermediary can focus on balancing the need the need for consistent framework with local flexibilities to effectively serve students so one of the things we may have a consistent assessment form at all colleges use but we allow at our colleges to add to and to tailor we want to make sure that we are really focused on who we’re serving which is our students who are on snap and enrolled in and step and so that we take that as as our focus and we do the work behind the scenes to make it accessible and equitable for our students it can be challenging at times to de Valence the demands of a local program with those of the collective so I manage our local step program as well as out of the state and at times it can be hard to make sure we’re meeting the needs of both but I think it’s just keeping the broader perspective of the value that has sort of whole is important and then really important to be adaptive opportunities and flexible so things change a lot but you know there might be federal changes there might be state changes and really see that as an opportunity and have a continued commitment to continuous improvement is important and that is it I think we’ll take questions at the end so thank you for the opportunity to talk about what Oregon’s doing thanks Kate that was that was wonderful I really appreciate what you had to share and I know just in our work with different states most states really understand that the community college system is is a vital partner in developing a robust snap E&T program but you know as you know and as I think you demonstrated it’s a it’s a complex system it’s a big system and so I think the type of partnership the type of intermediary work that you’re doing in state of Oregon is very very helpful in a really good way to approach all of this on behalf of the state and the end snap recipients so so that was great appreciate it very much good okay so now we’re going to stay in the state of Oregon but make a shift and next we’re going to hear from work systems which is located in port lorig on we hear from Patrick hearing and Stacy Triplett about their work and and without alt I’ll hand it over to Patrick and Stacy thanks David this is Stacy hey Kate from across town I’m going to briefly describe the way that the consortium works our consortium the workforce development board work systems is the city of Portland Multnomah County and Washington counties Workforce Development Board as well as playing a role with state workforce development boards I want to describe the way the consortium works and do the first couple of slides and then Patrick Dearing will add add and focus on the benefits of this approach he’s been our major executive sponsor for this project for last number of years so he’s going to get way more into the benefits so I just like to start on the first slide David with the partnership and I’m going to focus on DHS in this a little bit because I want to bring highlight or bring up the role that DHS our local our state and our local partnership with DHS is really strengthened over the years of planning and implementing and growing this consortium it’s been a shortcut like people have meant mentioned to grow the program but it’s also been great having a strategy of multiple consortium we’re going to talk about our local service providers as well as briefly mentioned the state workforce devote development board role and highlight a little bit of the localized impact also we’re finding that other programmatic partnerships and alignments are happening as a byproduct of the work that we’ve been doing in setting this consortium up and working closely with DHS the consortium itself so the service providers there’s a very they’re not the end but they’re at the edge of the slide there we built on it their existing expertise with varied population in serving in community-based settings so you’ll see more about that in a moment and the last thing on this slide is one of the key roles that they had was an experience using a distributed database to talk about that back-end that people have mentioned managing eligibility reporting service delivery and also we’ve played we’ve helped them have a good kind of financial reporting piece that’s a key role that the service providers have done so I’m going to go ahead and advance the slide and talk more about the funding partners that support this consortium as people have mentioned it’s quite attractive defenders because they see the capacity that’s built locally multiple participating partners have funded parts of this program and they see that a robust network is better weathering year-to-year fluctuations that might happen so the variety of funding types that are listed there is really a program strength everything from city general funds to Community Development Block Grant funds those are locally administered as well as a combination of city funds and Multnomah County funds that fund both homeless and response to homelessness in our community as well as community justice funds that work with re-entry populations the state has supported the work experience funds as well as the foundations that were mentioned before Bank Works is a program that has participation as local banks to support training so if we could advance I’ll get into the service delivery partners this is a little bit of our NASCAR slide here you’ll see they’re training providers represented as well as our local workforce centers or America’s job centers you’ll recognize that community-based nonprofits are listed here who have their own recruitment networks and very complementary programs as well as a local a new local investment that the local DHHS has made in providing navigators across some of these programs so the network that we’ve put together here is known for an emphasis on re-entry populations homeless and housing insecure folks newly arrived in other immigrants public benefit recipients and communities of colors so you’ll see some traditionally african-american organizations listed there as well as other complementary organizations so one more slide to just talk some about the services that this network of community-based providers provide you see there the program elements from the prior slides the career coaching is happening in those locally culturally responsive and culturally specific settings the breadth of the consortium allows for a robust service mix folks are being able to be connected to training as well as work experiences and the retention aspect you see here retention services career coaches have conversations that include advancement conversations that loop people back into additional training so I think here I should short quickly mention that there are other workforce development boards in the state who have more regional or smaller communities and a few of them are participating with that that we provide capacity for them to come up to speed and work within this program so that’s been our experience so far that’s just a quick overview I’m going to hand it over to Patrick gearing and he will get more into the rest of the program advanced it slightly thank you Spring I attached a guaranteed Program Officer at work systems and I’m going to do a latter part of this presentation a lot of preference this with just kind of snapshot of the growth and that after that I’ll go into the benefits of the intermediary approach which we think has been a major driver of this growth and contributed to contributing to Oregon’s growth overall so the first green line here in the chart is showing the resource growth over the last three year period the most recent is our current grants application that we’ve submitted it’s starting in py 18 at about three hundred and fifty five thousand and we’re up over one and a half million dollars so really Steve aggressive growth in terms of people served the figure has doubled since py 18 to from about 400 people to over 900 people at current it didn’t rise the same ratio I think is the resources and that’s primarily because we’ve gravitated toward a longer-term more intensive service delivery strategy so the costs are higher but we believe the results are higher and more pointing toward middle-income occupation so we we support that higher ROI from the standpoint of participant outcomes and then our partners have gone from 18 sorry eight partners to 14 partners in the same period so a fundamental role of Workforce boards is to create value in partnerships and in a team effort so of course we’ve organized our consortium to be based on a team approach and some address each player in the team or each level of our consortium approach and what the benefits for them are next slide please so first the top level as Rachel mentioned altima trous panse ability within a state is always DHS so we so this is a beginning with DHS from the state perspective the benefits of the consortium approach for them and the first one is a single point of contact so just in order of scaling up having a single organization overseeing a consortium like work systems can really help make sure there’s not a bottleneck and create efficiencies for the state agency actors here so you know we calculate that without us being involved the number of contracts and grantees and the related TA and training and so forth would more than double for our state agency overseeing the snap 5050 program so we create some value and efficiency there another piece is that some of you know but not all I think that there’s a the public storefront for Workforce Services is the one-stop system that’s the biggest most numerous system were just general public goes when they’re looking for work and in our local area serves about 50,000 people annually so job seeker is actually part of the bottleneck of 5050 grant so just finding the food stamp recipients who want to go into training employment services so we have a very large and bring that to the table in our consortium being a local workforce board we have a flow-through of around 50,000 people annually I I don’t recall the exact figure we haven’t looked at it recently but it’s a very high share of these people who are food stamp recipients and then the last piece is local advocacy and representation and one thing about the 50-50 program as others have mentioned it is funded largely by local municipal resources so that could be the state decree city could be the county and sometimes it’s even departments of the City and County that have specific projects that are funding our work and so anytime we’re working with an elected official or policymaker from the city or county er then we’re talking not only about their funding what the results are but we’re talking about how we’re working with DHS to multiply their funding so the programs are joined and interrelated so we’re just we’re necessarily talking about DHS and Department of Agriculture resources at the same time we’re talking about city or county resources next slide please so next in the sort of consortium structure is work systems and that’s us and so what’s the benefit of the approach for us firstly it supports our mission vision to increase prosperity for varied populations through middle-income employer so this is what we do this is our focus and in many ways including our role in the community the resource levels and so forth this is really critical to supporting our mission and vision also it increases resources so as we saw in the first chart you know we’ll see about one and a half million additional resources to serve nine hundred more people in our community and work with 13 workforce development partners to provide those services so the resource picture is obviously a huge benefit of this and the ability to increase our community impact and then thirdly it supports a one-stop service delivery model and what this means is that one-stop the basic idea is you bring multiple partners into a team at and organize the services around the customer rather than making the customer go to different different systems different bureaucracies different organizations to try to find the services they need so a consortium sort of by definition brings together the different partners and organizes around the customer that’s that’s how we’ve organized our services and we see that as just the fundamental way to serve customers it’s organized around them rather than the sort of natural borders of bureaucracies and agencies and so forth of course we have multiple players but we’ve organized it into a seamless system as we can and that’s one stuff ok next slide please service providers are also I think could be seen as a customer in the consortium and we look at them that way the benefits for them firstly is unified contracting so the funds that are being matched that I mentioned say say a city Portland funding for example those go into contracts for the service providers that are being matched the match money is put back into those contracts to increase the scope and impact of the services so it’s just administratively efficient we have the same contract the same funds the same contacts the same training and technical assistance it’s all unified it would be in our view incredibly inefficient to have those contracts be separated so that they were getting matched and the related contract documents and contract EA and oversight and reporting and so forth coming in a different stream so it’s just much more efficient this way secondly there’s a local support that’s really specific to the consortium I think we have local DHS and work with them very closely but the probe is more about the program specificity than then you know the local orientation program meaning that you know we have specific practices we establish communities of practice specific groups of customers that we’re working with in partnership so our technical assistance and training and communities of practice is really organized around the specific program and the state level support is about the 50/50 grant but is specific program so we’re adding we’re adding value at the level of that kind of specific support and then advocacy is an important one too so we have by acting as a consortium we’ve up leveled the advocacy at the policy maker level where previously might see environment of individual service providers advocating for themselves which can sometimes translate to competition between providers over scarce resources and by up leveling that we brought it into a team approach where we’re saying let’s talk about funding the program as a whole and this is the unit of consideration that a policymaker looks at they look at you know what’s this homeless program where the results of it they don’t necessarily look at specific parties within the program so it’s just up leveling the advocacy so that the impact is more effective and we’ve seen better results with that too and finally and this is obviously on next slide please last but not least this is going in the flow of the grant obviously the participants are of course the number one consideration what’s the benefit of a consortium approach for job seekers who are served by a consortium now 50/50 program one is that we’re increasing the services available to them so there are services that are 50/50 match technically part of the grants that are really important services but work systems as additional benefits to the services to the participants that make their success to make them be more successful and support their participation in the program examples of this is a housing support so a lot of times if we’re pushing toward middle-income employment people aren’t earning income for three to six months while they’re in a construction or health occupation or other kind of training program and in some instances they’ll get evicted we can provide rental assistance during that period of training and while they’re looking for job to prevent them from being evicted or drop out we have child care for instance we have transportation support so all of these things were adding to the service mix for people in these programs although they’re not part of the 50-50 program and participants benefit by having access to those things another item is seamless referrals so referrals within the network are in program referral so you might have one provider doing career coaching and they’re helping someone formulate a career plan for middle-income jobs then another provider may be doing occupational training maybe they’re doing the training and financial industry and then another training partner doing a retention services so we organize referrals so that customers can benefit for a multi partner approach that brings in the strengths of different organizations and programs services and then the last thing is supply and demand connectivity so it’s kind of in with DNA to bring an approach that’s driven by labor market information and a focus on relationships with employers and high-growth high-demand occupations and so the customers benefit from us pointing our resources and also having strong business connections to support that thank you thank you David and Stacy that was that was wonderful very good so you know in the world of snap E&T one of the big questions is you know what should the relationship be with local force development boards you know how should they partner how should they work together and I think what you shared in this role is as an effective intermediary is a great example and a great sort of answer to that that question so you know I really appreciate what you’re doing and all the good information that you shared I was good well good so so thanks to all three of the different models that we’ve heard from my presentations you’ve been very succinct where we’re on time so now we’re going to move into the question and answer period so we’ve gotten a number of questions and we’re sort of looking through them trying to understand the questions and and then sort of prioritize them so I want to start with first question so and this is really I think for anybody so the question is how does contract excuse me how does contract oversight work from the state county intermediary to subcontractors standpoint so this this relationship between the state potentially a county intermediary and you know your subcontractors how does that all all work your guys’s perspective so let’s take that one on this is Danny I can tell you how it works as a community-based organization as an intermediary we have currently six subcontractors under our contract with the state and we visit them at least once a year in person and we do monthly desk audit of their programming what we do when we conduct that visit is a mock monitoring and evaluation visit of what the state is going to do when they come the state intern will visit us as the intermediary and and perform a monitoring and evaluation visit at least annually of us and then they choose one of our subcontractors annually to visit in person and do it of the M&E that meant the visit and then when the when our program analyst comes at the federal level to the state we are part of that that visit as well thanks that’s great anybody else want to chime in on that or we can move on I’ll take your silence is moving on ready to move on so another question is thinking of the your intermediary models do you have one system for data collection and if not what is your process for aggregating all of your snap E&T data for reporting purposes I can mention this Patrick support like I mentioned one we actually don’t just have one operating in Oregon but I think from the standpoint of you know in consortia data collection benefit I would mentioned goes back to the point I made about the unified contracting and the the processes around the contracting so say we have some city funding when we issue it in contracts for a snap 50-50 program then we have matched it’s generated we place that match back into those contracts the reporting on the people served and so forth is actually the same it should be unified so you know it’s the same program so you don’t want to have separate systems of tracking and reporting it would be doubling the work to do that so this is one benefit of you know a intermediary that some tracking and reporting both source funding we call it which would be city or county or state money into contracts with service providers and then the match funding so since that those two funding streams are unified in the same program we have unified the reporting so that it’s just one reporting process great thanks let’s go on to a next to next question so actually I’m going to go to a question I think that’s more in your direction Kate for Oregon does the lead college take care of Billings or tuition payments and reimbursements as each College Accounting Office submit to those to the state that pays office so how does that all work across the different colleges yeah that’s a great question so um and this titles a little bit of context to the last question to is one of the things that is fortunate that Oregon has is they have used the same data system which is called imatchskills that our organ employment department uses so we are all able to verify snap eligibility that way so I think that’s a really important piece to know is that has really streamlined our ability to enroll students into the program so in terms of the financial reporting what we do is people all of the providers need to enter services or what activities what components that participants are participating in so vocational training is the big one with the colleges in that I met skill system but then on top of that the community colleges do have some separate data tracking that gets submitted monthly to PCC and then quarterly with all of the roll up and so in that we the the colleges submit a list of all the student support services they paid for that month and so that’s the tuition fees tools books transportation any of those allowable support services a huge percentage of which are the tuition and then we have really clear grant guides of what that needs to look like to ensure we’re in compliance and not supplanting and so that’s something then that gets checked on during audits so the actual accounting happens at the college but at all the reporting comes to PCC and we roll it up into one and submit it to the state all right thanks so a next question and you may have touched on this a bit but the question is basically what is your role at the local DSHS offices and I think this could be for Oregon or Georgia in referring eligible snap customers to your program if you can talk a little bit more about you know basically how you find and get your clients I think you touched upon this a little bit all of you did it to a certain degree but that was a question we had juice one is this thanks David this is Stacey from work systems we have a relationship with our local DHS county level offices that they have provided some staff that are called navigators who help us both to identify those snap recipients and make them aware of the programs that are offered but also serve the other direction that they help the community-based organizations where the services are delivered to navigate the snap eligibility process and anything that comes up on that side so it’s kind of a two-way warm referral shared customer models that we’re working on there and you know we have ongoing coordination with them management level meetings that happen and as well as kind of a visiting program that we’ve set up so that the navigators are quite aware of the services that are available in the network and the locations that they’re referring their customers to [Music] this is Jenny you had a little bit of it yeah but we had a little bit of a different situation in Georgia when we started in 2017 the waivers were expiring for the work requirement in our state and they were it was a rollout plan of county by county and we found pretty early that it was really important for the state office snap employment and training coordinator and us at Goodwill and in a new new media and the providers in the local area to go out to the local offices for the eligibility workers and the local staff to explain how the program was different now they literally said this is not your grandma most ent program because they were the local office folks just needed a lot of awareness and education about what a 50-50 model means what having providers to do skills training in it and the colleges that partner with us the enrollment process would look like and how this was going to meet the work requirements and so that people were not so that they just understood and so that we could begin to get buy-in for promoting the program in a different ways and then a really a sanction based program as it had been in the past so we did a tour we give posters and flyers and we gave you know we as a nonprofit could could buy them lunch we’re not reimbursed but you know just really making it a celebration of what good things are coming to the state and that provided a very important messaging for the referrals that now occur in those local offices to their their providers thanks Jenny good we move on to the next question but I just wanted to let you know we’re going to we’re putting a list of all the presenters up with contact information if you want to take a look at that so the next question is really about collecting I guess more sort of sensitive information so how do you get permission for sharing Social Security numbers date of birth for data match purposes with the State snap agency so starting at your local level how does all that work you want to take that on this is Jenny I can go first if anybody might have a different process but we have too many different levels of it but it starts with the client they have to sign a release of information to allow us to provide that to the state and between providers who are coordinating care for that person and it’s very specific to the client is his time limited for what they sign off and they can revoke that at any time we have that level we also have the data sharing agreement with the state about how we’re going to share data what we’re going to share how we keep it secure the retention that we have so that we can share information back and forth that is sensitive and we have the business associate agreements and legal counsel review those to make sure that they are secure this is Stacey we’re operator I’m sorry Oh God okay we’re operating in a similar fashion here I just also say that we have the ability to do secure file exchange within our case management data collection system so that helps when there’s particular things that career coaches enter but the customer has given that same release of information and we’ve been able to share that with DHS and this is Kate I would just say one of the benefits of having that statewide imatchskills system as frequently we actually don’t have to collect Social Security numbers from students because they’ve entered at themselves into the secure data system there’s some exceptions when we do need to but we have really clear releases of information anytime we do that and then in terms of for Katie’s or any community colleges out there we do have all of the data sharing agreements in place and then we worked with our registrar to ensure we’re in compliance with all of the FERPA regulations around that which is basically student confidentiality and student record rights and so making sure we’re covering all of that and so on our assessments on our case plans we have you know added disclosures to make sure the students know that though we are sharing information with Department of Human Services – so that’s very clear and transparent Thanks good so next question which I think really could be answered by any of you but the question really is on this sort of your dual role so so the question is as both a snapping and key provider and as a intermediary working sort of as an extension of the state how do you avoid any potential conflicts of interests this is Jenny I’ll go again conflict of interest would imply that we have a benefit that others are not able to access as an intermediary end of the provider we don’t have competition between each other we don’t you one does not have to compete you just have to apply and be approved and meet all the criteria to become a provider for the state or as a contractor for us in our role is technical assistance provider when we’re going out and and promoting the program marketing and educating people about what’s available we give everyone the choice to either subcontract with us and those are often the little providers who need a lot of hand-holding and support to go through the process or larger providers or to other our college partners or large foundations to contract directly with the state and they always have the choice between the two so you know we certainly have a conflict of interest policy we we disclose you know who’s on our board and who’s benefiting but you know we’re bringing our own dollars for the 50-50 partnership these are dollars that we raise that we spend that we are bringing and then are getting the reimbursement for so this is the same for all of our subcontractors it’s their dollars that they’re bringing and so it’s they’re we’re not competing for money or which is the scarcity would often create some kind of conflict I imagine so so I’m not sure that we we have a conflict in both roles we’re just sharing what we do and how we do it and helping others to do it as well I’m the more the merrier right great thanks Dan you know I think you bring up a good point is the sort of the non-competitive nature of snap E&T and 5050 partnerships so anything to add from either caters practical Stacey that Becky okay I would add that I think for I think it’s important to have leadership support of the of those dual roles and so I’m very fortunate we have our really supportive college president who’s very committed to Nancy my supervisor is also very committed so I don’t I think they see the benefit of making decisions that benefit the consortium and that was very clear when when community when PCC took on the role as intermediary is that our role is to make decisions that are the best interests of our collective and then that inevitably benefits political so and I think the other thing is as you know Rachel kicked it off ultimately the grant is administered by DHS so a lot of decisions just are driven that direction that don’t put you in a in a position where you feel like you’re you’re making an interest that’s better for your local program or the collective because it’s very clear what needs to happen for for the whole consortium I was going to say we I don’t think we don’t perceive any conflicts of interest either we uh and our role is coordinating and administration we don’t provide direct service so that we’re not operating in the same spaces our consortium partners great thanks so we have a question that focuses on County administered States and as you as you know there are some states that are that are County administered when it comes to snap E&T so the question really is so the state you know receives funds which are then pushed down to the county and then the county can contract with local programs or vendors to deliver employment training programs and so sort of two questions who is considered the intermediary in this incident and can you fuck define intermediary as it relates to a county administered state so I I have a response to that but I just wanted to check and see if if any of you had a response on that No okay so what I would say in this situation is that a county administered state can can have an intermediary in many of the same ways that that the three examples you guys have shared there isn’t distinct difference I think some of the things that we’ve seen looked at is that the intermediary and intermediary may work statewide and contract directly with the state but when it comes to them work and local counties they need to coordinate with specific counties the other thing that you know could be a consideration is and I think this is more in larger counties or heavily populated counties that almost you know sort of almost look like a state in themselves or close to that you could certainly have a similar type of intermediary role you know within a County as the three of you guys are all sharing so so I think that much of this is is going to be the same in a county administer state with the with the acknowledgement that you do have a different sort of an added layer a different hierarchy and that needs to be built into whatever relationship the intermediary has so Rachel I don’t know if you have anything to add to that no I don’t think so okay okay great thanks all right so yet looking through our questions and actually I just I had I had one sort of basic question that I want to just throw out there and see if you guys can answer quickly and I know we’re sort of getting down to the end here but um could you just sort of briefly state very sort of practical terms how often and in sort of what format you communicate with your state snap agency what does that look like this is Jenny alma quickly we have monthly workgroup meetings with with the leadership team at the state and the my leadership team we have a one on one call phone call the state administer and I monthly just to touch base on a closer level and then we do two statewide convenings of all providers and the state office in person and then we’re about to start doing the state Advisory Council for the program comprised of of executives across the state and we’ll do that every other month by you Kate we have monthly calls with the state team the technical assistance calls with all the providers and then DHS does have to summit snap E&T summits a year and then I would say I interface with them very much on an as-needed basis so sometimes that will be a lot with phone calls or emails sometimes we get you know very specific questions and so it’s clarifying is if something’s allowable or not or if there’s site visits or or audits just collaborate on that so at least monthly and then sometimes it may be weekly but there have been very responsive one of the things that’s helpful they are set up as regional leaves and so all the providers have a point with a policy analyst which has been really helpful in knowing who to work with and who to clarify issues with at work systems yeah it’s a similar structure for us you know we have the monthly conference calls I would add to what Kate says that you know the local districts of DHHS also convened so they have partners meetings you know the goal of these meetings impart technical assistance but just in part sharing so that we all know what each other are doing and you know folks that are not in a consortium can understand what’s going on within those environments and then there’s there’s just good referral across the board in the DHS districts Thanks so one last question so the question is really about monitoring and I think in particular your roles in intermediary you could just talk a little bit about how often you’re monitored you know how that works who monitors you as an intermediary which you know might be somewhat different than than it would be as just a straight snap to achieve you know 50/50 provider I can mention what happens with us we’re monitored I think probably annually by the state we’re monitored also by FNS who’s accompanied by the state and when I say we this is would be activity happening at the work systems level as well as our consortium partners and then we also do monitoring of our consortium partners and the monitoring we do is twofold you know we’ll look at the origin fund that’s being matched and monitor for requirements at that funding stream as well as the 50-50 match program that it’s that’s increasing the size of those programs so I think there’s that sounds like three layers of monitoring right and so the goal of our monitoring is that I identify problems before they ever surfaced at any other level and then of course I think that’s the goal with the state and then and then the feds – so did I think it’s especially with programs going this rapidly I think it’s actually good thing to have some redundancy there and this is Kate that’s very similar for us I take one of the things that we did and this is very much due to the help of the technical assistance from sji and Washington and the befit model is a lot of the documentation that we have the colleges submit to us is streamlined but it actually provides us with information for monitoring that we need so we can identify problems before they even before they get too far so in that you know we have the colleges submit time and efforts to us and in that they have to identify where they’re where the staff are funded from so we can flag that and the students support reporting that they do they identify the original source of funding so we’re able to monitor all of the expenditures as they are going and then align that with the program outcomes to make sure that we don’t have disallowed costs so I think by building that in we have been able to have some kind of ongoing monitoring that’s that’s not official that really allows us to make sure everyone’s in compliance and then same thing DHS will monitor PCC annually and then they also have a rotation of monitoring the colleges and they go and monitor the college and then we accompany and that’s the thing with an audit with FNS comes and that’s actually been tremendously helpful because we just had an audit with FNS that occurred with one of the colleges and so there are a lot of great takeaways that we can we can inform the rest of the consortium about so that we are making those changes as needed and it doesn’t need to wait until till the next monitoring or at those best practices we can we can encourage people to keep doing those can you have anything to add or that good where ya know very similar I think I think what the state and FNS has shared with us is the benefit of having an intermediary who really can go much more often just as Kate I think with Kate who said nip things in the bud that may be a problem further down the road or we see something pop up in one provider that is really going to help all the providers that that’s the the benefit of having an intermediary is is you don’t get in trouble we’re not we’re not the auditors where the we’re really are providing support and assistance to help get ready for those and to make sure everything’s in order and and really to you know start things off right and then monitor throughout to just make sure that you know we’re all doing the best we can with the information we have and share with each other to make sure that we’re we’re in compliance and providing the best possible services and best practices really thanks Jenny so I want to thank all of you all all three of your presenters and Rachel of course for participating today and sharing what I think is a wealth of really important information I hope this is helpful for four states hope it’s helpful for colleges workforce development boards community organizations or other entities that are that are either operating as an intermediary or thinking about it and I hope this has given people a lot to think about and a lot to consider so thanks everyone for participating today again we should have most of this out and available relatively soon but probably not any sooner than a week or so in the meantime think about what you heard today put it to practice if you can and and thanks again for for participating have a good rest of the day thank you